[E233] Why the Best Teachers Lead with Connection with Marti Smith & Amie Huggins

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:04] Speaker B: To the Empowered to Connect podcast where we come together to discuss a healing centered approach to engagement and well being for ourselves, our families and our communities. I am so excited today to introduce you guys to Marty Smith and Amy Huggins. And they're going to share about a new project they have that's releasing, releasing soon. But first I want you guys to just say hello, tell us who you are, how you got connected with each other. We're so excited to have you. [00:00:35] Speaker A: Thank you so much. My name is Marty Smith and I am an occupational therapist. And I have been working with Empowered to Connect for, gosh, feels like almost a decade. And so maybe your listeners are familiar with some of my other resources. I've written two books, the Connected Therapist is mine and Sensory Healing for Developmental or Sensory. Yeah, Sensory Healing for Developmental Trauma is the other. So long I didn't come up with the name of that book, so it's a little hard for me to roll off my tongue. And so I'm an occupational therapist. I specialize in working with kids who have experienced adversity or are marginalized or have vulnerabilities. And so I work at a care farm up in or down in Texas, close to Austin. And so, yeah, I work on Mondays working with kids, direct therapy here at the farm. We use animals because a lot of the kids I with come from the court systems, the family court systems, and people can be tricky for them. And so we use the animals kind of as that bridge. And then I do a lot of trainings around the world, really, and I, my passion is to bring relationally informed care, you know, trauma informed care, relationally informed care. And I just want to make that accessible for people. I want to bring the sensory component to life for them and help them kind of understand the neurology behind it and that kids, a lot of it is skill versus will and really breaking that down and that whole idea, you know, Dr. Green talks about kids do well when they can. And I work closely with Robin Goble as well, and she talks about regulating connected kids who feel safe and know what to do, behave well. And so I really love those models and bringing in the sensory processing integration piece and helping parents and educators and lawmakers, policymakers, all those people, really understand how do we help kids feel safe in their nervous systems so that they can, you know, have better quote, unquote behaviors. And. And I'm going to briefly introduce my friend Amy Huggins, and then she can tell a little bit more. So Amy knew that I had written the Connected Therapist and she had met me at a conference in Utah and at that time it was a brief introduction. Hi, how are you? And really loved what she was talking about. She has a nonprofit that she works with up in Utah that I want her to tell you a little bit more about. But really impressed with her when we met. But then, you know, as you do, you go on and you live your life. And then she reached out to me in January and said, I want to write the Connected Teacher. And a little known fact that not everybody knows about me is, you know, if you've read my book, you know that my dad is a physician and lots of physicians in my family, but my mother is also a teacher and one of my sisters became a kindergarten teacher. And so I started my OT career working in the school systems and I worked there for 10 years. I loved it. I thought I would retire in rural Indiana schools. And then my husband had other ideas and he moved me to Austin. And so the schools have always been my passion. They've always been where my heart is. And so when Amy said she wanted to write the Connected Teacher, that struck a chord with me and I got really excited and so we made it happen and that was really amazing. And I cannot tell you, Jesse and your listeners just how lovely this woman is and how amazing it has been to work with her. She is 30 year veteran teacher herself and we, we laughed, we cried, we wrote the book that really we wanted to have 20 years ago when we were struggling in the trenches ourselves. And yeah, I'm going to shut up now. And Amy and I, when we do podcasts, this is our cue, like it's your turn to talk. Like we get a little wave. So I'm going to give my little wave and let Amy tell you, because she's not just a teacher, she's amazing. I can't wait for people to beat her. [00:04:45] Speaker C: Thanks. I felt the same way about Marty. She's one of my favorite humans and will be forever. My name is Amy Huggins. I am in Utah. Actually I've been a social studies teacher in junior high for the last 30 years. And about 2010 ish, I decided that I needed to have more in my life than traveling and spending all of my own money and having control of all of my own time. And I became a foster mom and from that ended up I had five total placements through my house and four of them are still part of my family and ended up adopting one as an adult, a couple as youngers, one I just have guardianship of. And really the way That I found all of this was I didn't know how to parent my own kids. I was seeing these behaviors. And I grew up. Marty and I are born the same year. We're the same age. I grew up with this idea of when dad says, sit down and shut up, you sat down and shut up. Children are to be seen, not heard. And I thought for sure if I just put enough rules and boundaries on these kids, they were going to comply. And your listeners know, right? Like, that is not what's going to happen. And so I went looking. They don't know. [00:05:59] Speaker B: They're going to find out soon. Right? [00:06:01] Speaker C: Right. [00:06:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:01] Speaker A: Right. [00:06:02] Speaker C: Yeah. If you don't know, well, then I'll just let you learn that experience yourself, or you can listen to the rest of us and say it's not going to work. Right. And so I went looking for any kind of answer. And the first answer I actually found was TBRI and ended up working with a nonprofit here in Utah called Raise the Future. And through them, I have we really. Well, it started with. We developed a curriculum for classrooms, because what I. As I started learning TBRI and as I started learning the relational connections and the science behind trauma, I realized this was going to work in my classroom, too. And so I started applying what I was doing at home versus what was happening in the classroom. The issue I found was TBRI is a parenting curriculum and teachers cannot be parents. Right. And about this time, I found Marty's Connected Therapist book. And even though I'm not a therapist, I read it and I just devoured it. And it was game changing for especially one of my little ones. Occupational therapy absolutely changed our world. And so I kind of deep dove into sensory and ended up doing my practitioner training here in Utah, actually. And then Raise the Future was like, hey, do you want to help us do this in schools? And I was like, yes. So we have written a curriculum that we teach teachers about how to implement TBRI in the classroom. And that's called Tools for Transformation. And that's in the process of being copyrighted and everything right now it's ready to go. We've implemented it with some huge success. But when I was actually writing a presentation for that, I was quoting Marty and. And I was like, I wonder. And so I just reached out on her email, on her website, was like, hey, do you want to write a book? And within 10 minutes she's like, I'm on my way to ski with some friends. But yes, I want to write a book. And I'm texting my friends that I work with going, you're never going to believe who just texted me back. Like, I was so excited. But we ended up connecting and the book really kind of wrote itself. It was so. I think both of us just felt like we just had all of this to get out. So the book is. Is really sensory based, which teachers do not have an understanding of at all. And it's not because they don't get it, it's because it's not part of the education program. Right. Like, we're very stuck in behavioralism here and PBIS and all of that stuff in education. And so this is hopefully gonna help teachers reframe how we see behaviors and reframe how we respond to those behaviors so that all of our kids can learn and not just those who do well in the traditional school setting. So that's me in a nutshell. [00:08:48] Speaker B: I'm picturing all of the teachers that are listening right now doing a little happy dance in their car or in their, you know, room where they're listening. Because you're exactly right, Amy and I. And I think that is also true for parents too. That sensory component was brand new to me when I learned it. And I remember thinking, well, my child hasn't had significant trauma, quote, unquote. That was back when I was like qualifying things and levels and, you know, determining how that should impact the human body. And I remember thinking, no, I mean, there we're not ever going to be at that level where we would need any kind of therapeutic intervention from ot. And then it didn't take long for me to be mentioning. In fact, it was Tutana Ottinger here at Empowered to Connect. I was mentioning to her that one that my 2 year old was biting her nails. And I was like, could you, like, what do you do to keep your 2 year old from biting their nails? And she was like, well, that is not actually a common behavior in 2 year olds across the board. Have you looked into the fact that that could be a sensory thing? And I was like, well, tell me more about that. And then when I began learning more, [00:10:08] Speaker C: I learned more and more and more. [00:10:10] Speaker B: And then I was like, it just. It's a brand new world when you [00:10:13] Speaker A: start looking into it and we say that everybody could use occupational therapy like it is. I hope that everybody knows that ot, you know, in the next five years or so. And that's one of the goals of the book, was to bring that lens to the classroom even more. Because a lot of the school ot's even, you know, something everybody doesn't know is occupational therapists themselves started with a lot of the behaviorisms and, and things like that. And so we're having a shift in the OT community of even becoming more neurologically responsive and, you know, adding the, the lens of compassion a little bit more forefront. We've always been a compassionate, caring, you know, profession, but really putting that at the forefront of working with these kids. And yeah, so like, I'm trying to also bring the OTs of you can work on these strategies in the classroom. It doesn't just have to be handwriting and, you know, modifications and, you know, things like that. Like, we're not just working with dyslexia and those types of diagnoses where I really want to work with the general population. And I. What I love about what Amy and I created is that it's for parents as well. Like, it's kind of like the connected therapist. [00:11:30] Speaker B: We. [00:11:30] Speaker A: I wrote it. [00:11:31] Speaker B: I voraciously ate that one up. And I'm not an OT or a [00:11:36] Speaker A: therapist and the majority of my followers is parents and caseworkers and social workers and things like that. So this book was kind of written with that same lens of accessibility and really breaking things down. I'm super excited about the section on the, the science and behind the strategies. And Amy and I have kind of created our own way of looking at it through the wind. Like overlapping the attachment cycle with the window of tolerance with Bruce Perry's Arousal Lovely with Robin Gobles, Owl's watch dogs and possums with dancing, you know, the Dan Siegel's models and Stephen Porges. Like, we kind of looked at all these theories and, and we stepped back and, and said, how can we make this really accessible and not lengthy? I mean, it is lengthy. The book is 350 pages. We might be able to get it down a little bit. [00:12:33] Speaker B: I'll read every one of them, guys. Okay. Yeah. [00:12:37] Speaker A: And it's written kind of as a choose your own adventure as well, so you don't have to read the whole thing. And Amy has created a bazillion resources for people. There's lesson plans in there, there's, you know, scripts that you can use. And so it's a big book, but a lot of it is really, you know, at a glance, use it right now kind of information. And yeah, so I'm just super excited to bring that sensory piece into the classroom as well. And with that, you know, I, I dream as the occupational therapist. You know, one of the things I kind of dream about with this book is that all the Parents with kids with IEPs and 504s and all of that like that they'll, they'll read this book and then give it as a teacher gift. And it didn't really occur to me until I think it was one of my kids was one of their friends or something. Yeah, it was one of my kids friends. He's like a 20 year, 20 year old accounting student. And we were talking about this book and I said I was just so excited, like I really have this vision that parents will buy it for each of their teach teachers. He says, so you want parents to give a book to teachers about how to be a better teacher? [00:13:41] Speaker B: Teachers will either love you or hate you. Yeah. [00:13:45] Speaker A: I said, well no, that's not what I'm trying to do. But gosh, that's an interesting perspective. And isn't that life? Right? Like we see our own perspective and hear this book is about, let's see these other perspectives that I'm over here going, I think every teacher should read, but not. And I think the part that he was missing was the teachers that we've had beta test this book, the ones that we've had read it prior, they feel seen, they feel validated, they feel like the work that they're trying to do is finally possible. And so it's really Amy's story of how she was burned out like the, the connected therapist was my story with my, my own child. And this, this story that leads this book through is really more Amy's story as a teacher who was really frustrated and the administration, you know, was, was not predictable and consistent and how she navigated that and how she brought these strategies for herself as well as for the kids. So it's just as much we want the teachers to feel seen and validated as much as we want them to be able to have better strategies and skills for the students too. So I still want parents to give it to their teacher. But under the lens of I see you and I know how hard you're working, not you're doing it all wrong, take this book and change yourself. [00:15:03] Speaker B: You know, there's this caregiver, she's just told you the script for the note that goes with the book. Okay, so rewind that. [00:15:12] Speaker A: And I hadn't even thought of that perspective until this kid said that. And I was like, well that sounds like a jerk move. That's not what I meant at all. [00:15:21] Speaker B: Of course, y' all help me out a little bit or help our listeners out. I'd love to get everybody on the same page. You know, we have a wide variety of people that listen to this podcast and especially, you know, they're clicking on this episode, they're like, oh, I want to hear what these people have. For teachers, when we talk about coming from a behavioral lens, help, help just kind of bring this to life for parents, for teachers, for therapists, for child welfare specialists that are listening. And they're going to identify this as soon as you start talking about it. But I just want to kind of get us all on the same page when we talk about finding a different way besides this lens. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll start. Because as an occupational therapist, I was on the autism team, I was on the augmented communications team. I was called in for the kids that had the big, you know, Robin would call them big baffling behaviors. And in the 90s and early 2000s, even into the 2010s, really, there was a big focus on classroom management. Yes. And a lot of if, then, if they do this, then they do this and going to have charts and rewards and then, you know, tickets and clip charts where you have to move through the different colors and in the moment. And I think this is important for your real, to your listeners to hear those strategies. And we talk about this in the book. We have a whole chapter on this. They're. Those strategies are effective in the short term. And I was actually just talking to another OT colleague who is on this mission with me to, to really bring awareness to the OT community. And she wrote a curriculum called Powerful youl. Her name is Amy Lou Lewis. And we were talking about some of the science in the book and things, and she said something really profound which was if we use these strategies with children, we do get compliance, short term compliance from them. So that keeps us using them. Right. But when we look at the neurology behind what we're doing, we're actually shutting the system down and we're creating stress that puts you into the dissociative continuum of Dr. Perry's arousal continuum. And so essentially we're taking them out touch with their bodies, we're taking them out of touch with their needs. But, but I want to say, again, it works. And in the short term, it will create compliance in your classroom until it doesn't, and then you have huge explosive behaviors. And Amy really was saying, we teach people, people that become very compliant and dissociative, grow up to be adults that can't handle conflict. And so you find yourself in a marriage situation where, you know, you're trying to talk to your spouse and they're like, everything's fine, it's fine. It's not a big deal. And they become so dismissive because they truly don't feel their own feelings anymore. Because we've taught them through these clip charts and these behavior modifications and this really rigid and, you know, like, punitive way of thinking to where we kind of make these robot people. This robotic compliance is what, what Robin calls it, or actually Dr. Perry, Dr. Perry calls it robotic compliance. And then Robin calls it the trickster possum because it looks like they're doing everything you want, but it's a trick. Their nervous system. [00:18:40] Speaker B: Stress response, yes. [00:18:42] Speaker A: Response, yes. And so the goal really is to move away from that into more relational approach where the child still works with you to meet these more harmonious goals, but they do it because they want to do it. They see the, the reasoning behind it. And it's not just as punishment. And because I said so, Amy even alluded to that in the beginning. Sit down and shut up because I said so. We will. We absolutely will. But then we're not going to want to come to Thanksgiving dinner with that person, right? And we have to do repairs later in life with these relationships that were it damaged the relationship. And if there's anything that we as a society need right now is relationship. We, we've lost the ability to have disagreements. We've lost the ability to see both sides because of these methods. These exact methods are one of the reasons that we are in the state that we are literally in, in 2026 right now. And so by, by bringing more relational strategies, then we actually see long term change and then there's just more harmony later in life. And, and if those strategies worked long term, we wouldn't have written the book. If those strategies work, three of us, as it pertains to TBRI and the neurosequential model and the power to connect and all. Like, we wouldn't have jobs, we wouldn't be needed. But the problem is they weren't working. And so everybody kind of was like, ah, we need something different. I love how you said, yeah, I [00:20:22] Speaker B: was thinking about this as you were talking. You said it works until it doesn't. And that really is true. And I think so many, so many of us, whether through caregiving or professionals. I heard this, Amy, even in the way you kind of told this story yourself. I mean, we try what we try until it doesn't work anymore, and then we go looking for something different. And I know in our parenting curriculum we often talk about how all of these Ways of, of helping raise children. All of these strategies that we have, whether they're in the classroom or in our homes, it's like a funnel. And for some kids, they're gonna go through that funnel, they're gonna be just fine, and it works for them. But there's some kids that this doesn't and never will work for them. And instead of trying to take the thing that works for the smallest amount of people, why are we not taking the thing that works for everyone? So I'd love to hear a little bit more about, you know, give me your elevator pitch for a different way. I think you've made a compelling case of like, okay, the old way, it doesn't work and it doesn't work long term. So give me your elevator pitch for a different way. [00:21:41] Speaker C: So I think the big issue is you go to, I call it teacher school. You go to these teacher ed programs that everything is focused on the curriculum and everything is focused on force compliance. And in education, we have something that I heard called compliance is rebellion. And to me, it sums up everything that there is about education. Educators absolutely comply by rebellion, right? Like, I can't tell you how many professional developments I've sat in where I'm like, okay, you want me to do this? I'm going to make it look like we're doing the sticker chart or look like we're doing the clip chart, but I'm going to do whatever I want to in my classroom. And we need to give teachers the skills to do what actually works, because what we're learning doesn't. It's not based in brain science. It is not based in understanding how we build neural pathways. It is definitely not based on, based in understanding the arousal continuum and understanding how to de escalate a situation. Like, I've seen people in school who are talking, talking, talking to a child who's completely out of control. I need you to calm down. This is not how we behave. These are not our choices. And back in the day, I did the same thing because I didn't know any different, right? And now I'm like, why are you using words? Right? Words are not going to work, work for you in this situation, right? Like, just stop. You're, you know. But teachers don't have the skills to do anything else. And then they look at someone like me who comes in and in the world that I'm in. And right now I work with a lot of schools and a lot of after school programs, and I am still in the classroom, at least for another year. And people are like, I don't get you. I'm like, I don't know that I get me either, right? Because I'm on the ground with a kid, or I'm sitting down with them, or I'm giving them a piece of gum. And so many teachers are telling me, you're giving them what they want. And my response has turned into, no, I'm giving them what they need. Their behavior is communicating to you something. And so we need to teach teachers what that behavior is really saying so they can meet the behavior need. And then you're not going to have the outburst. I don't have big behaviors in my classroom because everything we do is sensory based and play based. And I teach junior high and the book has a couple of really funny stories about what happens when you play in junior high because everything comes back to probably inappropriate stuff. But we pull out little plastic animals and we finger paint, and I play with Play doh. And all of these other teachers are like, how do you handle the men mess? And I'm like, well, it's just part of what I do, right? But I also, because I do that, don't have as big a mess and don't have the behavior problems because we have structured. And that's another thing we hit really hard in the book is we. You have to have structure. So much of the complaints about this relational approach and especially TBRi and things like that is, well, you're just giving kids what they want. There's no structure. Oh, no. There's absolute, absolute structure. If you can't handle chewing gum because you're going to throw it across the classroom, well, then we're not going to chew gum, right? There is structure to it. But what I have found through doing this in my classroom for the last seven or eight years is that I have to teach the kids the skills, right? I'm not doing therapy. I'm not an occupational therapist. We are not decompressing and working through all of your trauma. In fact, if you tell me your trauma because I'm a mandated reporter, I have to take it other places, right? Like, this is not about me solving your problems. This is about me creating a classroom where you can feel safe, right? And if that means that I got to pull out some Play DOH for you to recreate a scene, I'll pull out some Play doh, right? And because I'm meeting your needs, there's still the structure there. I am still teaching curriculum. I'm just wrapping it around sensory play. I am still Teaching curriculum, curriculum. We're just giving them different options. To show it to me, I do one assignment where the. I don't know if you remember back in the day, but we would do the Cowboys and Indians, and you would make those paper bag vests, right? Like, we can't do that anymore. Cultural appropriation and all of that. But I was sitting in the class once, and I'm like, that was so fun. So now when I teach a writing assignment in my seventh grade class, the kids actually do the writing assignment on the back of a paper bag vest. And the kids who want to do art pull out the glitter, and they pull out the stickers on the pom poms, and they have a great time. And the kids who hate that just write it out in words. And that's fine, too, right? It's finding ways to be creative and ways to let kids express who they are. But still teaching your curriculum. And that's what I think is going to set this apart, because I think I said it before. TBRI relationship. All of that is not. It's parenting. We cannot parent in the classroom. It's not our place. It's not where we are. There's too many kids. We can't do it. But what we can do is create safety. And that's what this book is all about. Teaching teachers how kids look when they don't feel safe, and teaching teachers what it looks like when they're escalating or when they're dissociated. Right? So then the teachers then would have the skills to pull them back to that calm place where learning can actually occur. So it's so practical. And everything in the book has been tried multiple times in classrooms. Like, nothing has made up everything we've done or I have done. Because I'm not going to throw something out at teachers that's hypothetical because we get so much theory I don't. Nobody needs anymore. Right? Let's give you the science. Let's give you the practical skills so that you can actually do what needs to be done for your kids. [00:27:18] Speaker B: Okay. I'm listening to you. I'm kind of tearing up because I want a teacher like that. I want my kids to have teachers like that. I mean, I wonder how many of you listening are feeling the same way. It's just I'm feeling so moved, and it's. And it's so encouraging, Amy, to hear someone who's been doing this as long as you have, who really, really gets it, and you haven't checked out, you've [00:27:44] Speaker C: pushed in Well, I did check out, and I think that's the part that Marty was talking about earlier. If we would have been having this conversation in 2019. 20, 20, 2021, I would have been telling you I'm doing time, because in the state that I've been at 30 years, you can go fully vested in retirement. And so, so, so many teachers hit where I'm at, and they're like, I'm out. Bye. I'm disengaging. Here's your work seat. Sit down, shut up, because I'm out. And we really have two extremes in education right now. We have these really young kids who are coming in, so excited to be there with. And we're burning them out. They're leaving. [00:28:21] Speaker A: Y. [00:28:21] Speaker C: Right. And then you have those of us who are old school and we are doing our time. And so our kids are the ones who are, who are, who are struggling because of it. So once I found this and started doing it, I started to see my kids care again. I started to see them engage in the classroom again. And all of a sudden, the entire reasons that I became a teacher were valid again. I quit holding time. And I have a principal that he's going on, this is his second year at my school, and when he came in, I follow and told him, and I said, I want you to know I got two and a half years and I'm out. Like, do whatever you want to do, but I'm not doing this. I'm not learning a whole other program. I'm not like, I'll. I'll rebel and comply. That's fine, but I'm out. And he has given me so much, I don't know, leeway, so much trust. Trust. That's the word I want to use. He has given me so much trust that not only do I love what I'm doing again, but I'm like, he's talking me into working more years, and I'm like, how are you doing this? This right. Like, I'm out. Bye. See you later. And he's like, just keeps dangling these carrots of, if you do this, then I'll give you. Let you do this. And I'm like, oh, no, no, please. But so I don't know if I'm really out at 30 years. And so I. I mean, I might be. We'll see how everything else in my life goes, because it's not sustainable for me long term. But I really did check out, and then this process checked me back in. And if we can do that for even a few teachers, Nobody goes into teaching because they don't like kids. People who come into teaching come into teaching because we want to work with kids. We like kids. And there is something about when those. And you'll see it in the book Marty has, our illustrator did some amazing pictures, but I call it the Dancing Neurons. When those kids are just dancing in their heads, right? And they start to make those connections. And for the first time in 15 years, I'm seeing that happen again. And I'm loving it. Like, I'm just eating it up. And I'm like, okay, I can be here for a hundred years. Like, when I started teaching, I said, you're going to bury me in my classroom. The gravestone is going to be over here. Because I love it. I didn't for a long time. And I think if you really. I tell people all the time when I'm working for raise. If you really want to save education, this is how you're going to have to do it because it's going to bring joy back to teachers. It's going to bring joy back to parents. [00:30:47] Speaker A: Parents. [00:30:47] Speaker C: It's going to bring joy back to kids. And that's. We have to. We have to have the joy come back into education because it's not. [00:30:55] Speaker B: Don't miss this, listeners. Amy just said that junior high kids started caring again and junior high kids started engaging in the classroom. I have a 10th grader and a 6th grader at the time of this recording. And I just know how big of a deal that is that you can get junior high kids to care in the classroom. [00:31:18] Speaker C: Yes, that's. I mean, let's, let's not set the expectations too high. We're still falling love everywhere. [00:31:24] Speaker B: Yeah. You know what you're looking for. That doesn't look like the same thing at every age for sure. [00:31:30] Speaker C: Right. But no, they do. They start to have fun. And I hear kids tell me all the time, you guys, I teach geography, US History and Utah studies. Can you think of anything more boring than that? [00:31:40] Speaker A: That. [00:31:41] Speaker C: Right. Like when you think traditionally. Bueller. Bueller, right. That's what I do. That's what I do 24 7. And I have kids who are like, this is my favorite class. And I love this. And I like to come here and I don't want to be absent on this day. And I mean, again, teachers are going to relate to this. Not every kid loves me. Not every parent loves me. And I'm okay with that. Right? [00:32:00] Speaker A: Because, like, that's in the book too. Like, this is not. Like, don't think that it's going to cure everybody's problems. Like, there's still going to be kids that. But they're not your jam. Right. And you're not their jam. But how do you navigate that as well? [00:32:13] Speaker B: Well, I love how you're, you're kind of drawing that line of, well, and this is what is different from being a teacher, from being a caregiver. If you're that kid's caregiver, you have to lean in and you have to connect with that kid. Amy, you're, you're like pointing out like, I'm not for everybody, but I'm, I'm trying to make an on ramp onto learning and feeling safe in my classroom room. [00:32:38] Speaker A: And, and the beauty is to have diversity within the school. Right. So that, and I think Amy does a beautiful job. And we talked about this with the whole, you know, she's got a teacher down the hall that's very different than her. And so kind of what you were talking, when you're the parent, you really do need to know how to connect with your one kid and you've got to lean in and you've got to figure that out. When you have 150 students, that's not even possible and it's not sustainable and all these things. And so it's learning who you are and leaning into who you are so that you catch the kids that, you know, do relate to that, but then also forming those communities so you know where to direct that child so that they are seen as well. Because again, it's all about relationship and how do you foster the relationships and be a safe enough person that you may not hit it off organically, but you're safe enough that you can see the kid and know because of the safety of your community and your team, who would be a better fit for them. Right. And I just love, I love that about, about what TBRI does. It's, it's, it's the relationship. And while recognizing teachers cannot have a relationship that is very tight with 150 kids, but each teacher could have 10 [00:33:57] Speaker B: kids each year and be a trustworthy adult. [00:34:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:34:03] Speaker C: Even within my department, we have, like, I'm really great at the play, I'm really great at the relationship and the joking around. There are a couple of people in department who excel at this, at the structure and the storytelling of history. And there are kids who can't wait to get out of my class to go to their class because that's going to meet a different need. I think if we really want schools to Be successful. You have to have administration that sees the extremes and cultivates both. We have kids who, if I pull out play doh. They literally have a meltdown because their hands can't get dirty. And again, that's a sensory need. Right, Right. But there are kids who just love the structure of telling you a historical story. And these kids just sit there and eat it up. And they're. I don't excel at that, but I have people who do. And so how can we find our strengths as educators to meet these kids? And one educator will never meet every need in the building. But you have all of these educators playing to their strengths, given the trust to play to their strengths and to do what works for them with the understanding of what's happening in these kids brains. And you're going to have schools that succeed. Like, there it is. That's a simple ele. There's your elevator pitch right there. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Okay, I want to know, maybe there are some other veteran teachers listening to this and they're identifying with, you know, kind of the journey that you've shared. Amy, I want to know, brass tacks. What did you have to do to change? To change what? What did it require of you? [00:35:39] Speaker C: Oh my gosh. That's the hardest question I think anyone has ever answered me, asked me [00:35:46] Speaker B: because I'm hearing, I'm hearing you doing something there. And it took a lot of courage. [00:35:51] Speaker A: Probably it. [00:35:54] Speaker C: Oh, okay. I think to answer it's going to have to be multifaceted. I think, number one, I did my own therapeutic work. I have a therapist. I've had multiple therapists. I've done trauma work. I've done the relational work. I think that is a key element into why I have been able to articulate what I've done and have been very purposeful in it. I think another way that I had to pay the price was some really difficult professional experiences. I took some professional hits, I guess is the right way to say that. I'm not sure. I've had administration who don't like me and don't agree with it. And I've had to learn to navigate that. That and I had to do some real soul searching as to where I was going to fall. Am I going to fall with this compliance or am I going to hold true to my values and ethics? And those were really hard discussions and moments. I think I've cried so much. I have done so much internal work. My kids, I think, have paid a price to some degree, like to stand here and tell you so I'm In a really great place right now. But even two or three years ago, I don't know that we could have had this conversation. So it's been hard, but I'm hoping that I have done enough of the work that maybe the trail won't be quite so taxing for other people. It wasn't easy, and I don't know that maybe its own book on its own of all of the. Really, I think it came down to personal therapy, actually. And then friends, I have a few people who. We call them the coffee club in the book and my coffee club, both at Raise the Future and then both at my school, really were my foundation for holding on. So that's the other thing. Teachers, find your people, right? We all have them. Find your people and find your coffee club. And that was the other way, I think think we navigated it. But no, it was not at no personal cost. It was, geez, you're gonna have. I'm gonna be thinking about this for days now. Poor Marty's phone's gonna blow up with. She asked me that question. And now the email listens to me. This is it. Jeez, don't make me. [00:38:14] Speaker B: I just want to recognize it's hard to change, especially when you've been doing something a certain way for so long. To change what you're doing and try it a different way, that's takes so much courage, and it takes effort. [00:38:28] Speaker C: We really are kind of asking people to systemically change right at the end of the day, that's what we're asking. We talk a lot about how to survive the system in our book. And I can also tell you and shout out to my principal, if I didn't have the principle I do now, I don't think I could have even gotten to this place either. Like, he came in and he was literally. You can call it a godsend, you can call it a miracle. You can call it. I don't care what you want to call it, the best luck in the world. But I ended up in this place where he saw me for who I was. He let me embrace my strengths. He embraced my strengths. And I'll never forget. He probably won't even remember this conversation if he even listens to this. But I will never forget, within the first couple of months of him being at my school, he says to me, he goes, I don't get you. He goes, I don't understand you. I don't get what you're doing. This makes no sense. I couldn't do what you're doing doing. He Said, but it works. And he goes, I want to give you the freedom to do this. And we have so many conversations about what's the structure? What are the rules? Because, again, this is not parenting. There has to be rules. I'm building relationships with kids, but it is my job and ethical responsibility to maintain a boundary as a teacher. Right. We do not cross those boundaries. And so we've had so many good conversations about that. So I think that's the other reason that I've been able to get to a point where I could share this story. Like, I couldn't even. The story that's in the book I couldn't even talk about without just sobbing. Like, it really messed with my mental health. [00:39:59] Speaker A: And I want to interject in there, though, that the teachers that I have had beta test or beta read this book. That's where they cry, too. [00:40:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:10] Speaker A: Is because they can see themselves, but they weren't hurt. They weren't seen. And I think that your story, Amy, sees them and gives them permission to have that grief. And. And you say it came at a personal cost, and it absolutely did. But I'll go back to, like, these punitive methods that we were using prior. You were going to take that cost regardless, and you were either paying that price daily in the frustration of sticking to the ways that you were doing things and being miserable and counting your days, like, that was already miserable, and doing the therapy and doing the work. Well, you just literally said it was really hard. What you were doing was hard as well. [00:41:01] Speaker B: And. [00:41:02] Speaker A: And I'm just so grateful and, like, honored and proud and all the things that you kind of took that leap that was really hard to get to the other side. But I don't want to negate the fact that it was hard already. So when people hear you and they're like, oh, my gosh, she had to do therapy. And it was really hard. Yeah. Yeah, it was. And both can be true, right? Like, both can be true. It was already really hard for you. And you did make it exponentially harder to look at yourself and do the therapy. But I also want to kind of come full circle about. One of the things that I really love. There's a lot of Easter eggs in the book that I. I won't spoil, but one of the Easter eggs that I will let these listeners in on that I. That brought tears to my eyes, was that the COVID is your grandchildren. Yes. And that we. We. We were deciding because my daughter's on the front of my connected therapist book, which is my baby. If you Will. And. And this is kind of Amy's baby. This is her story. Like I said in the very beginning of this podcast, this is more her story story. And then I just add some of the flair and fun and science to it. But I wanted the COVID to reflect your personal life as well. And so you did this huge, you know, photo shoot with your kids, and. And we had them doing all these sensory strategies and all these things, and at the end of the day, we. We ended up. One of your friends designed the COVID with the photos of two of your grandbabies looking out the window, like a hopeful looking into the future over the playground. But I just love know. Getting to know your kids and seeing them on Zoom. And, you know, like, as we were writing this book, like, that's one of my favorite Easter eggs that really highlights. This was your story, and this was your journey. And you did this for those kids. That hard work that you did, that therapy that you did, you did it for those two children that are represented on that cover. And to me, that's, like, the coolest Easter egg that I could imagine. [00:43:04] Speaker C: Hey, now I'm crying. You know what, though? I do need to probably shout out all of my kids. I've got four amazingly beautiful girls who have. And now I really will probably get a little weepy. They have taught me everything I know about how to love. They've taught me how to love unconditionally and how. Oh, sorry, I did not. I was not gonna cry. They've taught me how to survive something so hard. And when I look at, like, even my journey, and I tell you it's hard, and I know we don't compare and all that in this world, but I look at what they've gone through, and there were so many times when I'm like, they can do it, so I can do it, right? And my deep and resounding love for them as humans is a huge part of my story. And it is my story. Those four girls are my story. And from those four girls have come five beautiful grandbabies who are also my story. And two of them made it to the COVID Three didn't. And I'm sure that we'll pay consequences for that. No, just kidding. They know, but those two that are on the COVID spend a lot of time at their. At my house. And they call Ms. Marty. Ms. Marty. I mean, we. We were. Where were we? Marty. And. And one of my little ones said, you need to send Ms. Marty a picture of this because it's a daisy. Like, they talk so much about Ms. Marty. And they talk like she's part of the family now. And like, we're talking about maybe me going to Dallas and. And the two of them are like, I have to go because I have to see Ms. Marty and I have to see her farm. And so poor Miss Marty doesn't know she's going to host the whole freaking family because there's a million of us. But I just. I couldn't have done it without my kids, and I couldn't do it without my babies. And it really. She's right. I didn't even put that together until she just said it, but she's right. This is. This is what I wish I would have had when I was parenting, because mine are all adults now. My four adults. Adults. And I desperately wish I would have had this when I was parenting and I could have given it to my teachers that my kids had. Not in the way that, you know, hey, you're a bad teacher. But, hey, look, this is what we're dealing with. And at least now I can give it to my grandbabies kids. So you're right. Thank you. Go Tears. Sorry. [00:45:20] Speaker B: You said earlier nobody goes into teaching because they don't like kids. I mean, every kid deserves. Every kid deserves a teacher who is a safe place to land. [00:45:31] Speaker C: Right? [00:45:32] Speaker B: And I just. Thank you. Thank you for writing this book, guys. I hope that it encourages teachers. I've got two quick questions for you before we close out. The first is, I'm just so curious, so I need to know. Tell me your best strategies for reaching middle school kids. [00:45:57] Speaker C: Sarcasm. [00:45:58] Speaker B: Sarcasm. Because they finally get it right, you [00:46:03] Speaker C: know, they really don't. That's why it's so fun. [00:46:05] Speaker B: It's just when we are thinking about occupational therapy and when we're thinking about playing with kids, we are not thinking about seventh graders, y'. All, so. [00:46:14] Speaker C: And that's the problem, right? Even my ninth graders love. I do this biome thing and we talk about it in the. In the book, but where I pull out little plastic animals and they have to put them on the map. It's a bath mat, which is a whole nother joke. But they have this map that they have to put things on. I'm still doing the curriculum, but I'm giving them play. And I think Marty can talk to the science of this more. But we have so many kids because of COVID who lost years of vital relational connection, and so we have to overload them with that. And I hear all the time, well, I'm never going to get Ninth graders to play with. Play. I beg to differ because I do it all the time. Right. But you have to build safety if you're going to ask kids to step out of that. Social constructs. David Yeager talks a lot about the value in his book about the value and the importance of status. And in junior high, so often we want to forget that that status of these kids is the thing. So what we have to do is create the safety so the status can become whatever goofy thing we're doing in the classroom. Classroom, right. And I have had to overcome so much of my own self doubt and do things like stand up in assemblies and make a fool of myself and do things like I don't even think. I don't know. Remember if I put it in the book. But like when you do spirit days, the teachers are doing it too, Right? Like you have to build the community. I should. I think I sent it to Marty, but I have a friend who I work with who I absolutely love and adore. And he's the drama teacher. And. And he. I am. I'm just giving you the words. Hopefully it's appropriate. But I am white, straight, super, you know, traditional human here. And he is black, gay, not. And we were twins for twin day and we went to Walmart and we bought these pink sweatsuits and we walked around the school and he got a gray wig. It's the funniest thing in the world. And the kids still talk about that. And for Christmas, the kids gave us a flag. They had our picture put on a flag of us in these pink suits. And I keep thinking to myself, we had so much fun. And it had nothing to do with our sexuality or our gender or anything like that. It was that we were showing people who were literally diametrically opposed, right? Can be best friends. And so we're modeling that and we're playing and we're having fun with them. And that's what helped me rekindle my love. So that's. That would be my number one way. How can you play with these kids? How can you joke with them? How can you have these experiences where you're wearing the pink jumpsuit? We literally went at lunch and walked around because the kids were having so much fun. And he's the drama teacher, right? So he's like this, hello, hello. And I'm like, this isn't fair. They all love you more than me. And we turn it into this great big, huge thing. And kids are. It's just like, we're already planning next year's Twin day. So, like, it'll just be. So that's play. You've got to be. You find yourself, figure out who you are, and then let the kids play and play. Just play. [00:49:15] Speaker A: And your joy is contagious, too. That's one of the things when I bring. I have a lot of teens that come into my therapy room, and one of the things is delighting in them and finding something about them that you genuinely can delight in, whether it's one of their obsessions or, you know, their. Their hair, an outfit, a bracelet, you know, finding something about them. Them that genuinely brings you delight and then really actually expressing that joy in their presence. And. And I heard a lot of that joy coming through that story with you too, Amy. It's that your joy becomes contagious with these teenagers, and that's just. They're. They're so doom and gloom. They're so funny. You've got to bring your joy to that situation in a very appropriate way. You can't just be like, isn't it a beautiful day? You know, like, you've got to somehow connect. And that's that whole. I mean, we're on a podcast called Empowered to Connect, right? Like, this is. You've got to empower yourself in whatever feels true to who you are to connect with these kids. [00:50:20] Speaker B: It's not a warm audience, though, so you got to put yourself out there, is what I'm hearing. [00:50:25] Speaker C: You know what? They turn warm so fast. [00:50:27] Speaker B: They do. They really do. [00:50:29] Speaker C: They are begging for connection, and they are begging for someone to see them who's not in a screen. They are begging for an adult to look at them and not just critique what's happening, not tell them. Them what to do. They just want to be seen. You really want to connect with a kid, Just see them, you know, that's it. They just want to be seen. [00:50:49] Speaker B: Great advice. Great advice. All right, last question for you. I would love you guys to just speak straight to the teachers. What's. What's your parting thought for them? What do you want to leave them with? [00:51:05] Speaker A: I'll. I'll let Amy be the end all for this. So let her gather her thoughts for a minute. But I think it's important that Amy brings us out on this. I would say my most important is change the way I want teachers to. And it kind of goes back to that being seen. I want you to feel seen. I want the teacher to feel seen for who they are, and I want them to see the kids who they are. And I'll go back to something, you know, because your listeners are probably Karen Purvis fans as well. And she talks about, I've never, never met a true self that I didn't love. And I'll kind of go back to that idea that everyone is lovable. And in, you know, I work a lot with Robin Goble in her course and in her immersive. One of the things in the very beginning, one of the core tenets is all human beings have worth. Every single one. And so I want to empower the teachers to see their worth because a lot of times the parents are getting on them, the kids are getting, you know, you may feel like everyone is against you and, and, and you, you, you have so much worth that that is not reflected to you often. And so we want to reflect that worth to you through this text and through this podcast. We want you to know that you do have worth and that the kids have words too. Even the hardest kids still have worth. So for me, that's what I want to empower, is that we all have infinite worth. And, and how do we use neurobiology and connective strategies, strategies to find that worth and truly see it? [00:52:44] Speaker C: I love that what she said. The only thing I would add to that is, okay, I'm talking just to teachers. So here's what I would say to teachers. I am asking you to do some self reflection and do something really, really hard. I'm asking you to look at the situation and the system that we, that we're in and say there's, there is a better way. And I know I'm asking you to do something hard, but I am telling you that I'll walk it with you and that I, that we have done it and that you too can do it by embracing your strengths, by finding your purpose and by. I will not say find your why, because if I hear that in another professional development and teachers are going to get that too. Don't. We don't care about your why. This has nothing to do with your why. [00:53:34] Speaker A: This has everything. Say this is your why at some point in the book. [00:53:38] Speaker C: Probably, probably as a joke too. No, I won't say that publicly. But what I will say is you can do it. You, you can do it. You too can find the joy in teaching again and find your coffee club. Find your people, find your joy again. And, and you'll do it with your group. You'll do with your people. Because it's. Teachers get teachers. And I tell teachers all the time, we're awful, we're brats. If you're not a teacher. We don't want to hear from you because we look at you and say point blank, you haven't been in the classroom and again, been that person at the back of the room in professional development. That's like, when was the last time they were in a classroom? Right. [00:54:19] Speaker A: There were little moments that we would be writing this book and I'd be like, oh, we need to talk about this and this. And she's like, I better be the one that says it. Because there are times like in the book, it's like Amy is talking and then Barbie is talking and we have these like back and forth dialogues and she's like, no, nope, you can't say that. You, you, you don't get to say that. They're not gonna listen to you. It's. [00:54:42] Speaker C: We're horrid. And I love us and I love my teachers and I love occupational therapists and I love it all. And we just are here for kids. So I guess here's my parting thought to you. I see you. I know how hard what we're asking you to do is find your people people, find your strength. And let's see what we can do to help kids together. Because we can, we can help kids if we do this. [00:55:05] Speaker B: Thank you guys so much for being here. I know I've kept you. I, I kept thinking like, I probably need to wind this down, but I have been having so much fun talking to you both. So I appreciate you spending time with us today and remind our listeners. When does the book drop? Do we have a date? [00:55:23] Speaker A: We do. And I just want to thank you, Jesse, for having us on. And it's kind of a launch podcast here. Right. Like we're gonna, it's, it's going to be available for pre order any day. I will get that link to you when it does. The official date is also another Easter egg, because we're all about the Easter eggs. Amy, you want to tell what the official drop? [00:55:43] Speaker B: Like Taylor Swift over here? I'm loving it. [00:55:46] Speaker A: Well, and it is a little Swifty nod. That's one of the Easter eggs. Is our launch day or the drop date is a nod to Taylor Swift. And those, those that know will get it. So Amy, what's our drop date? [00:55:56] Speaker C: It's Friday, March 13th. Okay. Love it. [00:56:02] Speaker B: And whether you're listening to this before March 13, 2026 or after, you're going to know when to go out and get that book. I'm so excited to read it, guys. It's, it sounds wonderful. Thank you. [00:56:14] Speaker A: And it's called. I don't think we ever said the name, but it's called the Connected Classroom. [00:56:18] Speaker B: The Connected Classroom. [00:56:21] Speaker A: And then there's a tagline. What is it? It Connection. Compassion and Classroom Strategies. Something like that? [00:56:28] Speaker C: I think so. [00:56:28] Speaker B: Oh, I think it should have been. Nobody goes into teaching because they don't like kids. [00:56:33] Speaker C: Change it. [00:56:33] Speaker B: Okay. There's still time. [00:56:35] Speaker A: There's still time to change all the things. So. Tbd. Maybe that'll be your Easter. Put one in there for you. [00:56:41] Speaker B: Oh, guys, it was so fun talking with you. And thank you for spending time with us today. [00:56:45] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:56:46] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Jesse. [00:56:52] Speaker B: We hope you enjoyed the episode. If you're interested in learning more, head to empoweredtoconnect.org for our library of resources. Thank you to Kyle Wright, who edits and engineers all of our audio, and Tad Jewett, the creator of our music. On behalf of everyone at etc, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on the Empowered to Connect podcast. In the meantime, let's hold on to hope together. [00:57:16] Speaker A: Sam.